Curse

Leon_Ux-ixen · Apr 18, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

The game my fall under the catiory of MMORPG but it doesn't mean oyu can't solo. The devolper knowly gave us the option to farm or solo so it's not broken or a mistake of the devolpers. More then likely you just you feel of no use or hate that fact that you play with teams and can't get as much money as they can or even the worse they have a stronger build. If any of these are the real reason then guess what DEAL WITH IT. I have a ranger and wehn I go to do UW all I see is "55 LF SS/SV for 50/50" or my group list empty. Face it the staff arn't going to screw soloing up just becuase a few people feel it is a mistake in the game. Truth be told I hate the fact that us rangers have to be a Barrage/Interupt or Trapper and be lucky to be in a group for SF,FoW and UW.

Zhou Feng · Apr 18, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Sorry Juk3n you picked the wrong forums to post anti farming. Most of the people on here do it (excessively). As in when they play Guild Wars they really play Farm Wars spending their 3 or 4 (or however many) hours on the game farming various areas. Their excuse is when you have nothing left to do in the game it is the only left to do (despite the various repeatable guests). Oh but I forgot, doing the same quests over and over gets boring yet somehow killing the same mob(s) of enemies over and over again doesn't....

Just watch out for their massive ego saying things like "why not just nerf everything?", "my farming isn't bothering anyone" (despite anet themselves saying that exessive farming does in fact have a negetive impact on the economy), and one of my personal favorites mentioned here "without farming there wouldn't be good drops and prices would go up" (um anet said themselves that exessive farming is the cause of high prices and what you think that when an enemies sees a farmer he thinks 'oh a farmer, I have to drop the good stuff for him'). If what I have read in other forums is true about the frequency and quality of drops decreasing with the more people there are on at that moment farming the same group of enemies, then drops would become better to compensate for the drop in farming. Even if the price of rare weapons and the such did rise due to an increase in rarity, it would be short lived. Since the amount of gold brought in would significantly drop this would force people to lower the price they wish to sell that rare max weapon for since noone would have the money to buy it in the 100k+ range.

There is also the whole buy, sell, human nature and laziness thing that I have explained before when it comes to items like runes. In short no matter how you look at it prices would go down.

Another thread on these forums is about how the enemies don't drop enough gold and most people seem to agree. Maybe the problem isn't the amount of gold the enemies dropped but rather the price of things to buy being too high.

/signed
It's time to put an end to the farming.

If people can do it a little then they will do it alot. Anet doesn't mind a little farming to get that few grand so you can buy that rune or next set of armor and that is why they have repeatable quest areas. If cracking down on the excessive farming means cracking down on the casual need 1000 gold to get the next set of leggings kind of farming then so be it. I don't think it's some sort of coincidence that the FoW amor (most expensive in the game) is found in an area with repeatable quests accessable from a town that allows access to another repeatable ques area (UW).

Farming would be a lot more simpler if the drops would actually gain a bonus for people in the team rather then a penalty which is why most people prefer to farm solo.

Solo farming 24/7 really affects economy. I always said itd be a lot easier if Accounts will gain a cumulative effect due to time spent doing farming so drops will be less and less for every character in the account forcing people not to be farming 24/7. I find this solution however perhaps unpractical.

Maybe they should actually apply John Forbes Nash Jr governing dynamics, a theory in mathematical economics. So that a collective group working towards an ends gains more then an individual working towards that same end.

Ctb · Apr 18, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Solo farming 24/7 really affects economy. I always said itd be a lot easier if Accounts will gain a cumulative effect due to time spent doing farming so drops will be less and less for every character in the account forcing people not to be farming 24/7. I find this solution however perhaps unpractical.

I never understood why they don't do this, if they don't already. All you need is a simple counter in a database that tells you how many creatures you've killed of a certain type and level and how many chests you've opened. Every now and then it can recalculate the ratios to see if you're dropping too many of the same kind of creature or repeatedly opening certain chests again and again.

If you've opened 50 chests in the last 30 days, and 45 of them are out of the same region, then chests in that region drop garbage. I can't imagine with all the other complicated things the system does that this would add too much to storage or computational strain.

I think that's a far superior solution to the problem of overfarming. You'll still have a shot at getting decent drops on missions even if other people are farming them that way.

Str0b0 · Apr 18, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Ok CtB after reading your latest post I have determined one thing. you aren't against solo farming you are against cookie cutter builds being able to solo farm. The problem there isn't with the game but with the community. I have solo builds you haven't even heard of because I don't share them. They are my little secret. You want to stop cookie cutter builds then you need to put a stop to the fan forum community and are you really willing to do that? As long as there is an information exchange there will always be ways for us to solo farm because people will constantly share their methods. I also say to you that my suggestion of the single If then statment in the code would stop solo farming and you can't expect me to believe that they haven't thought about that. There has to be a good reason why they allow this to conitnue. I honestly think the nerfs are less about balance and more about keeping it challenging for the solo people rather than trying to stop them outright.

Also they do nerf drops for consistent farming of an area on a character by character basis. Trust me. If you want to test this then just go farm ettins for like 6 hours. It will be boring but it's an easy place to farm with just about any build. Eventually you will get a little pop up message telling you that farming over and over in an area nerfs the drops. Although there is also a way around this that I will not share and it really is only specifically linked to the Ettin areas of the game. I don't think it applys to anywhere else, at least not easily. Suffice it to say that there is a way to reset the counter.

Maria The Princess · Apr 18, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

NOT TO ANYONE PARTICULAR IN THIS FORUM, JUST IN GEWNERAL

GW comunity is just like real life people:

some people know ways to get rich and they do, and those who dont or can't, are pissed-off about it and complain about how unfair life is...

farming is "hard" work, repetitive and not always as productive as people make it seem, so if you dont like farming (or running) and prefer just helping guildies with quests, dont expect to get rich, and dont expect others to stop trying only because you're not. and for sure dont get pissed off seing the guy who had nothing, farmed for HOURS and DAYS, finally found a decent gold or greeen, and not is wearing FOW armor... most of people are working hard (in comparison to other things you can do in the game) while farming and are getting their reward, so if youre not farming (or running)because you can't/don't like/lazy/no time/not fun/stil learning the game, you cant be pissed off at those who are investing so much time in it to get rich.

oh yeah, one more thing: if someone likes to SOLO, why not let him/her without starting the "its a team work game" thing? he/she payed for the account not so other players tell him/her how to play, if he/she can solo (wich not evryone is capable of) let him use it to his/hers own advantage.

Zhou Feng · Apr 18, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

NOT TO ANYONE PARTICULAR IN THIS FORUM, JUST IN GEWNERAL

GW comunity is just like real life people:

some people know ways to get rich and they do, and those who dont or can't, are pissed-off about it and complain about how unfair life is...

farming is "hard" work, repetitive and not always as productive as people make it seem, so if you dont like farming (or running) and prefer just helping guildies with quests, dont expect to get rich, and dont expect others to stop trying only because you're not. and for sure dont get pissed off seing the guy who had nothing, farmed for HOURS and DAYS, finally found a decent gold or greeen, and not is wearing FOW armor... most of people are working hard (in comparison to other things you can do in the game) while farming and are getting their reward, so if youre not farming (or running)because you can't/don't like/lazy/no time/not fun/stil learning the game, you cant be pissed off at those who are investing so much time in it to get rich.

oh yeah, one more thing: if someone likes to SOLO, why not let him/her without starting the "its a team work game" thing? he/she payed for the account not so other players tell him/her how to play, if he/she can solo (wich not evryone is capable of) let him use it to his/hers own advantage.

I agree with this point. Im not against farming just not in favor of 24/7 farming. However Im aware how farming can affect a "static" economy. I believe there should be certain controls and/or regulations so farming doesnt ruin the game. In real life world economy a rich person can suddenly find themselves broke because said business deal went wrong or said stock market dropped, but in this game a rich person would hardly find themselves in such a position due to the staticness off the games actual economy.

Now if the game had cash sinks AND cash loops. And if the game had some awesome cash sinks that rich people would actually love investing their money on (READ gambling and elite mini games for the rich and not the masses, perhaps places that only the rich can visit) rather then just hoarding it and/or making some commodities ridicoulously overpriced (read: ectos) then farming would be a more viable object.

MSecorsky · Apr 18, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

NOT TO ANYONE PARTICULAR IN THIS FORUM, JUST IN GEWNERAL

GW comunity is just like real life people:

some people know ways to get rich and they do, and those who dont or can't, are pissed-off about it and complain about how unfair life is...

... And those that realize that the game isn't about wealth or items like the games people are used to, so the whole farming concept is pretty much worthless in GW and shouldn't receive any special concerns. People want to farm, fine, whatever, you're on your own. Don't beg for special concessions, farmers aren't worth the wasted time coding.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 18, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Another post where people assume just because somebody makes a post about how something shouldn't be they must be jealous. I have farmed and did so because I had to if I was ever going to afford the expensive things in the game that cost so much due to excessive farming. Not sure about the other classes but the w/mo and 55hp solo builds that I have actually used myself is far from "hard work". It is dirt simple. Really how hard is it to run into a mob of trolls or griffens (both melee) with three enchantments on you (mending, essence bond, balthazars spirit) then cast protective spirit, healing breeze, zealot's fire just prior to engaging. Continue to spam protective spirit and healing breeze while the enemy takes damage from the fire with each cast. Then renew zealot's fire when it's about to end. So you stand there and press three buttons on the keyboard, OMG such hard work. Same thing for a cyclone axe w/mo using the correct stances except I think its four or five buttons on the keyboard and you don't have to worry about enchanments getting stripped by a possible wondering enemy getting too close.

CORPG or MMORPG...Guess what? Both refer to being team oriented. C=Coop as in multiple people or one person and henchies cooperating. M=Multiplayer as in multiple people playing together (cooperating). Only difference is the henchies and neither refers to solo. Just because you can do it doesn't mean that was the intention. Same goes for just because they haven't fixed it dispite them *maybe* knowing. Maybe they just haven't gotton around to fixing it yet cause they are more concerned about Factions. Maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet because they plan to update every aspect of the issue at once in one large update rather than do it a piece at a time.

Quote:

Farming would be a lot more simpler if the drops would actually gain a bonus for people in the team rather then a penalty which is why most people prefer to farm solo.

How does a drop dropping for someone in the party create a bonus or a penalty? What penalty? Other than the nice item dropped, what bonus?

No Leon, none of those reasons are the reason. As I already said I have farmed and have done it well. I am against the excessive farming that has the negetive impact on the economy. The kind of impact that forces others (like myself) who thinks killing the same group of enemies over and over is boring as all hell and would much rather repeat the repeatable quests (that are there for a reason). Note that when I refer to myself farming I use the past tense. So why not just use those quests from the beginning? Simple. Due to the excessive farming going on the prices of things are higher than they should be. This increases the amount of time that would normally be required doing the repeatalbe to such a degree it's no longer worth it. For the amount of time spent farming to afford a specific item it should take the same amount of time doing the repeatable quest to be able to afford said item but this is not the case because of farming.

For example if it takes 1h to get say 10k farming solo, a full party of eight in the same amount of time would make 1250g. So an item selling for 30k would easily be affordable to the solo farmer who can get that much in 3hrs but would take a person in a team of eight 24hrs to afford that. If people couldn't farm solo or in a pairing and was forced to do the farming in larger groups then the amount of wealth in general would decrease. This means that item selling for 30k would have sell for 3750g so people could get the money in the same 3hrs that the solo got 30k in. The items would have no choise but to sell that low as noone would be able to afford the 30k.

This affect wouldn't be instant as it would take time for the average wealth of the general public to deminish and prices may initially increase but it would only be temporary as this would be a fix for the long run.

An idea that I saw someone post on a different thread that I agree with is to put more randomness into the mobs. Rather than multiple preset spawns they should be random and always contain a variety of classes. The different classes within the mobs would have multiple skills (well beyond 8 in the high lvl areas) where eight of those skills are randomly chosen and can be used in full by the mobs.

Maria The Princess · Apr 18, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhou Feng

I agree with this point. Im not against farming just not in favor of 24/7 farming. However Im aware how farming can affect a "static" economy. I believe there should be certain controls and/or regulations so farming doesnt ruin the game. In real life world economy a rich person can suddenly find themselves broke because said business deal went wrong or said stock market dropped, but in this game a rich person would hardly find themselves in such a position due to the staticness off the games actual economy.

Now if the game had cash sinks AND cash loops. And if the game had some awesome cash sinks that rich people would actually love investing their money on (READ gambling and elite mini games for the rich and not the masses, perhaps places that only the rich can visit) rather then just hoarding it and/or making some commodities ridicoulously overpriced (read: ectos) then farming would be a more viable object.

i havent got it ever yet, but a few of my guildied are tallking about a "anti farming code". when you overfarm a ceratain area, all of a sudden there is some window that pops up, and after this ALL drops stop (even whites). however a way to get rid of this "bug" is to go in a mission with a real party and finish it.

but farming 24/7? whats the fun in ONLY farming?

have you heard about the asian guy who was playing WOW for more then 70 hrs straight? he was on some tournament, so he went +70hrs with no sleep, food, water.... ONLY PC.

he end up getting a heart attak and die

doctors say its too much stress from game, cuz with no sleep and food and wter you get more stress, especially since all he was doin was just the pc game, so mentally he was suked in and living inside the game

Maria The Princess · Apr 18, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Really how hard is it to run into a mob of trolls or griffens (both melee) with three enchantments on you (mending, essence bond, balthazars spirit) then cast protective spirit, healing breeze, zealot's fire just prior to engaging. Continue to spam protective spirit and healing breeze while the enemy takes damage from the fire with each cast. Then renew zealot's fire when it's about to end. So you stand there and press three buttons on the keyboard, OMG such hard work. Same thing for a cyclone axe w/mo using the correct stances except I think its four or five buttons on the keyboard and you don't have to worry about enchanments getting stripped by a possible wondering enemy getting too close.

the "hard" thing about the 55 farming is that you have to repeat the same scenario 20 times before getting a drop worth more then 500g. (i had a 55 monk, and the only place worth my time is UW) and if you read my post correctly you can see that i dont relate to farming as a "difficult task", i relate to it as a "long, anoing, boring, demanding patience routine".
If you are spending 5 hours on your PC pressing 3 keys 1 after the other, you need a SHITLOAD of patience, no amusment (cuz imo its boring).
so yeah, its hard

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 18, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

I wasn't talking about a person actually playing 24/7. I was refering to bots (not needing mortal demand like sleep) going for 24/7 or a person farming for the 2-3 hours they have to play then activating a bot to take over when they can't play.

Quote:

farming is "hard" work, repetitive and not always as productive as people make it seem

Read it correctly? How can you read that wrong? You said it directly that "farming is 'hard' work".

quickmonty · Apr 18, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Another post where people assume just because somebody makes a post about how something shouldn't be they must be jealous. I have farmed and did so because I had to if I was ever going to afford the expensive things in the game that cost so much due to excessive farming. Not sure about the other classes but the w/mo and 55hp solo builds that I have actually used myself is far from "hard work". It is dirt simple. Really how hard is it to run into a mob of trolls or griffens (both melee) with three enchantments on you (mending, essence bond, balthazars spirit) then cast protective spirit, healing breeze, zealot's fire just prior to engaging. Continue to spam protective spirit and healing breeze while the enemy takes damage from the fire with each cast. Then renew zealot's fire when it's about to end. So you stand there and press three buttons on the keyboard, OMG such hard work. Same thing for a cyclone axe w/mo using the correct stances except I think its four or five buttons on the keyboard and you don't have to worry about enchanments getting stripped by a possible wondering enemy getting too close.

CORPG or MMORPG...Guess what? Both refer to being team oriented. C=Coop as in multiple people or one person and henchies cooperating. M=Multiplayer as in multiple people playing together (cooperating). Only difference is the henchies and neither refers to solo. Just because you can do it doesn't mean that was the intention. Same goes for just because they haven't fixed it dispite them *maybe* knowing. Maybe they just haven't gotton around to fixing it yet cause they are more concerned about Factions. Maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet because they plan to update every aspect of the issue at once in one large update rather than do it a piece at a time.

How does a drop dropping for someone in the party create a bonus or a penalty? What penalty? Other than the nice item dropped, what bonus?

No Leon, none of those reasons are the reason. As I already said I have farmed and have done it well. I am against the excessive farming that has the negetive impact on the economy. The kind of impact that forces others (like myself) who thinks killing the same group of enemies over and over is boring as all hell and would much rather repeat the repeatable quests (that are there for a reason). Note that when I refer to myself farming I use the past tense. So why not just use those quests from the beginning? Simple. Due to the excessive farming going on the prices of things are higher than they should be. This increases the amount of time that would normally be required doing the repeatalbe to such a degree it's no longer worth it. For the amount of time spent farming to afford a specific item it should take the same amount of time doing the repeatable quest to be able to afford said item but this is not the case because of farming.

For example if it takes 1h to get say 10k farming solo, a full party of eight in the same amount of time would make 1250g. So an item selling for 30k would easily be affordable to the solo farmer who can get that much in 3hrs but would take a person in a team of eight 24hrs to afford that. If people couldn't farm solo or in a pairing and was forced to do the farming in larger groups then the amount of wealth in general would decrease. This means that item selling for 30k would have sell for 3750g so people could get the money in the same 3hrs that the solo got 30k in. The items would have no choise but to sell that low as noone would be able to afford the 30k.

This affect wouldn't be instant as it would take time for the average wealth of the general public to deminish and prices may initially increase but it would only be temporary as this would be a fix for the long run.

An idea that I saw someone post on a different thread that I agree with is to put more randomness into the mobs. Rather than multiple preset spawns they should be random and always contain a variety of classes. The different classes within the mobs would have multiple skills (well beyond 8 in the high lvl areas) where eight of those skills are randomly chosen and can be used in full by the mobs.

People don't have to farm. Major runes are very cheap. Max damage weapons can be found doing missions or purchased/crafted for very little gold.
Collectors will craft armor without the need for gold. You don't have to dye your armor. You don't need that kewl looking sword that's selling for 100K. Why the concern for the cost of items? If you want vanity armor dyed black and rare skinned weapons then you have to put in a little extra effort.

Repeat: No one is being forced to farm for neccessary items!!

Str0b0 · Apr 18, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

People don't have to farm. Major runes are very cheap. Max damage weapons can be found doing missions or purchased/crafted for very little gold.
Collectors will craft armor without the need for gold. You don't have to dye your armor. You don't need that kewl looking sword that's selling for 100K. Why the concern for the cost of items? If you want vanity armor dyed black and rare skinned weapons then you have to put in a little extra effort.

Repeat: No one is being forced to farm for neccessary items!!

That effort would be grinding out farming. I think that people get the misconception that we go out kill some ettins and rare pauldrons rain down from the heavens and they are all Superior Absorbs. Yeah that's not the way it works. The effort we put into it is the repetitive task of trying to find things worth the money. As for your major runes...major runes are pointless for primary attributes. By primary attribute I mean the one that your build utilizes most heavily. Also you have to figure that most of the people farming for high end stuff have nothing else to do. They have hit the end of the game. They have finished all the quests. All that is left is collecting vanity items.

Maria The Princess · Apr 18, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

I wasn't talking about a person actually playing 24/7. I was refering to bots (not needing mortal demand like sleep) going for 24/7 or a person farming for the 2-3 hours they have to play then activating a bot to take over when they can't play.

Read it correctly? How can you read that wrong? You said it directly that "farming is 'hard' work".

hard work does not directly mean difficult to complete task, and for those like you i put the "___". as soon as a word is inside "" it may not mean it's direct dictionary meaning, it may be used as a metaphore to say something not as direct. if you read my WHOLE post you will understand this.

btw, never heard of these bots... new thing?

quickmonty · Apr 18, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

That effort would be grinding out farming. I think that people get the misconception that we go out kill some ettins and rare pauldrons rain down from the heavens and they are all Superior Absorbs. Yeah that's not the way it works. The effort we put into it is the repetitive task of trying to find things worth the money. As for your major runes...major runes are pointless for primary atttributes. By primary attribute I mean the one that your build utilizes most heavily.

So .... you are saying you can't play the game with a major rune instead of a superior?

And .... I am well aware of what is invloved in farming, if you were aiming that remark at me.

Edit: You edited your post before I responded.

Str0b0 · Apr 18, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

btw, never heard of these bots... new thing?

Old as these online games. Bots are just programs that follow preprogrammed routes and do preprogramed things.

Str0b0 · Apr 18, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

So .... you are saying you can't play the game with a major rune instead of a superior?

And .... I am well aware of what is invloved in farming, if you were aiming that remark at me.

Edit: You edited your post before I responded.

I'm saying that the difference is enough to make me not want to play the game with major runes. Why should I be penalized for wanting the good stuff? It's not like I've got anything else to do in this game. I've done everything I care to do aside from get vanity items for my characters. I wasn't aiming that remark at you but it seems that everyone in general has this misconception that farming is a get rich quick scheme. There is very little quick about it. I also want to make it clear that I do not farm 24/7. I work for a living so I don't have the time. I might farm for an hour or two and then I've got stuff to do. By that same token I don't have the time to replay mission after mission after mission hoping to get what I need. Farming is a way for me to maximize my chances of getting what I need in the time I have to spend on the game.

Maria The Princess · Apr 18, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Old as these online games. Bots are just programs that follow preprogrammed routes and do preprogramed things.

lol ty

so it is a program that records my actions and then repeats?
but how it knows what to pick up amoung all the white junk? and how it knows when to sell junk to merchant to empty inventory for new junk automaticly piked up?... ad even if you pogram it to sell junk to merchant.... how does it knows WHAT to sell and what NOT to sell anoung junk piked up?... or is it based ONLY on the gold made?

Zhou Feng · Apr 18, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

In essence 24/7 farming actually affects the games economy which leads to affecting Guild Wars on a whole. Its happened before in other games (Diablo, Conquer Online, etc...) 24/7 farming actually kills the economy of the game unless there where regulations. I dont intend to see farming dead just controlled and regulated just like real world economy.

By 24/7 farming I do not mean just simply farming for hours on end but rather dedicating your character to just endlessly farming (Farm Wars?) and engaging in little else.

quickmonty · Apr 18, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I'm saying that the difference is enough to make me not want to play the game with major runes. Why should I be penalized for wanting the good stuff? It's not like I've got anything else to do in this game. I've done everything I care to do aside from get vanity items for my characters. I wasn't aiming that remark at you but it seems that everyone in general has this misconception that farming is a get rich quick scheme. There is very little quick about it.

Once you get to that point in the game .... yes .... you want superior runes. I'm saying they aren't neccessary to play and complete the game. You also want the vanity stuff, but you don't need it. Therefore ..... farming isn't forced upon anyone to be able to play the game. If you want all the little extras after you have gotten far enough then you do have to farm.

I do agree that farming is not a get rich quick scheme, and I do agree that after you have completed the story line there is not much to do except work for the vanity stuff (that and PvP if you enjoy it).